[Committee] We need a Carols speaker!

Wed Nov 28 01:06:02 CET 2012

>From Mark:Ben, thanks for this response. So may I assume from it that the exec expect 100+ to come back into college on a Saturday for a Carol service? Given that is the number who have come to previous midweek Carols at Imperial, it would be a shame to do a Carol service on a Saturday and have a fraction of that number - not least given the cost involved in missing out on Andrew Sach (and no doubt in hiring the Great Hall - funds that you may decide could be deployed for the mission week in Feb).
Also, I am not sure I understand the point being made about inviting people to church Carols. I am not aware that what I offered was a church Carol service on a weekday; we are talking about a Imperial CU Carol service that happens to take place in a local church building within easy walk of the campus - like 90% of other college/Uni CUs around the UK do every single Christmas. It would always be a CU service - certainly not a CCK service. I also think I may have misunderstood the likely group to be invited. I have always understood that a CU carol service was for every member of the CU (certainly all the exec who would want to lead by example) to be encouraged to invite ALL their friends, course mates and team mates to attend  ... rather than Caitlin's narrower category of "students who wouldn't come to [church carol services] for various reasons or aren't friends with Christians". The CU have a great and unique catch for the CU carols - it is an Imperial event so many more people may be willing to attend it as part of an Imperial crowd than would contemplate coming to such a church service at CCK, CCM, HTB etc. 
Rather than carry out an email exchange, it may be better for me to discuss this with Guy and Caitlin or whoever is responsible for the Carols as I am sure I must have misunderstood. If you are all clear that a Saturday carols will attract 100+ people as on previous years then I am of course happy to help.Best wishesMark
From: caitlin.halfacre09 at imperial.ac.uk
To: lejenkins at live.co.uk
CC: gt.schofield at yahoo.co.uk
Subject: RE: [Committee] We need a Carols speaker!
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2012 10:50:23 +0000

Hi Mark,

Thank you for your concern for Imperial CU. To start with I just want to reassure you that we did not make this decision without thought or prayer. We spent some time in our committee meeting on Wednesday discussing the options and have again since your
 email on Saturday and have come to the conclusion that this is the best option for the people we are trying to reach.
The main reason, amongst others, for trying to stay on campus rather than using a weekday elsewhere, is that most of us in the CU can reasonably easily invite our friends to a church carol service at our own churches, whereas with this event we are trying
 to reach students who wouldn't come to those for various reasons or aren't friends with Christians to be invited to them, and on campus is the best way we have of doing this. 

I hope that this goes some way towards explaining our decision and I want to thank you again for your love for Imperial CU and the great support you are to us.

Caitlin

From: committee-bounces at iccu.co.uk [committee-bounces at iccu.co.uk] on behalf of Ben Jenkins [lejenkins at live.co.uk]

Sent: 25 November 2012 17:52

To: gt.schofield at yahoo.co.uk; committee at iccu.co.uk

Subject: Re: [Committee] We need a Carols speaker!

Hi Guy,

   If we are going to go with the Saturday option, do you think you could send me a some points that I could pass on to Mark. Basically just addressing his concerns and reassuring him that the decision we have made is the best? Just so we've responded to his
 questions. And I'll sort out the best time for him :).

Thanks,

   Ben

Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 14:55:23 +0000

From: gt.schofield at yahoo.co.uk

To: committee at iccu.co.uk

Subject: Re: [Committee] We need a Carols speaker!

Hi Everyone,

Caitlin and I have had a chat and we are convinced that we did discuss at length all of the options, benefits and weaknesses, last Wednesday which Mark has brought up. The same options and opinions are what are flying around now and we have little more evidence
 or new information on which to make a decision. Meanwhile time is ticking by, 

I am not convinced that we have enough new information to come to a confidently better consensus now than we did last Wednesday.

In addition to this I think the best place to make these kinds of decisions is in a meeting where we can talk all of this through, it is a complex topic, practically that would mean deferring the decision till this Wednesday.

Due to these two reasons I am convinced that we would be better sticking with the decision we made last Wednesday, I think we will see more benefit from an extra half a weeks devoted prayer and good progress in other planning and practical aspects over both
 the options we would be left with by deferring the decision. With the grace of God we still have a lot to do to get this off the ground.

Caitlin and I have agreed, therefore, that we should stick with our our original decision to hold the Carol Service in the great hall on Saturday. I pray that we will all be united behind this, working as best we can to proclaim the great news of Christmas,
 of Jesus' incarnation and what it means for all of us, praying that the spirit will be at work in us, in the CU and in those who come along to make the awesome truth of Christ made known and that through all of this the Carol Service is glorifying to God.

I have attached the mins from our Carol Service planning meeting, please read them through, work to carry out those things to which you were action pointed if you haven't already done so and think and pray about those things which still need sorting,
 be proactive in making progress in them if you can.

Thankyou all for your clear concern about making the Carol Service the best it can be, an apathetic committee would be rubbish...

Guy

From: Phoebe C <phibs.cchp at gmail.com>

To: committee at iccu.co.uk 

Sent: Saturday, 24 November 2012, 23:17

Subject: Re: [Committee] We need a Carols speaker!

Ooo and forgot to mention,  I guess our decision was based on the availability of a preferred choice of venue, which is on campus and personally I think that has an advantage despite on a weekend.

(this isn't a decision-making helpful point...) And we don't actually know what would happen on a Saturday. Whatever we end up doing, God will prepare people and be at work on whoever will and will not come, so we just need to make up our minds and pray
 loadsss for God's will to be done and praise Him for the fact that we can have a carol service! :)

Phoebe

On Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 10:27 PM, Phoebe C
<phibs.cchp at gmail.com> wrote:

Hello!

I think all that has been said made complete sense and Mark's points are very helpful. There are just a couple of thoughts that I'll throw out!

Decision:
We have spent an hour on Wednesday to come to the decision of having it on a Saturday.

Financially: 
Guy mentioned we have a sum of money and about spending it on the Carol service since it's a grant in the IC Trust that was originally for a carol service?

Having a lecture theatre:
Not possible as it is too late for John to book one.

Gospel Choir: 
Received a reply from them today and they have now agreed to do it on a Saturday. 

Reaching people: 
Feel free to disagree, but I am not entirely convinced about how many more of the 95% we will be able to reach if we are having the service off campus on a weekday, since I would imagine that a lot of people within that group have come into the Carol Service
 in the past because they can just drop in on campus. So we are back to what Caitlin mentioned, decreased numbers because we are off campus/in a church, or decreased numbers because the service is on a Saturday. (though there are a fair amount of students around
 campus on a Saturday, and lots of freshers live close to campus!)

Purpose of the CU Carol Service: 
As a CU, we aim to give every student in Imperial a chance to hear and respond to the gospel. Along with all the aims we have mentioned at the Carol Service committee meeting, I am thinking that the CU Carol Service, which has been on campus for the past
 few years (or more which I don't know of..), is a carol service in which we try to reach those who would not otherwise get to hear and respond to the gospel. 
So within that group of people would be those who won't feel comfortable or who wouldn't be bothered to walk into a church for a carol service, but would feel alright in and/or enjoy coming into the Great Hall for some Christmas carols. 
And for friends who are happy to go into a church for a carol service, not that we aren't trying to tell them the gospel or exclude them from our carol service, but we can invite them to the CU carol service and our church carol services (of which there
 some during the week and plenty on weekends and in fact CCK does a student one too!)

There might have been more on my mind when I started the email, though you've probably read enough! I am going for Saturday Great Hall.
But basically, I feel that perhaps we have been too focused on numbers? While it is an amazing vision to want to get as many people as possible so as many as possible can hear the gospel, we can easily start doing it for the sake of getting people in (which
 might not be what you are doing).

The Great Hall might look incredibly pathetic with only a few people on a Saturday, and it might seem like a waste of money, but wouldn't it be more amazing if we can build personal relationships with those few people, help them grow into Jesus's disciples
 and bring them into God's eternal kingdom, rather than having 200 people who might find the talk interesting and convicting for a while then get away with not meeting any of us nor Jesus? 

God Bless,
Phoebe

On Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 7:50 PM, Houghton, Chloe
<chloe.houghton10 at imperial.ac.uk> wrote:

I definitely think a weekday would be better (in terms of numbers), and a church wouldn't be a problem (I can imagine it being better)!  We could organise signposting on the route to get there.
 And even if there were loads of people and space was an issue, we could serve mulled something and mince pies, maybe just hand them round rather than keep them stationary, so that people can stay in the pews if they're happy to.

Chloe

From: 
committee-bounces at iccu.co.uk [committee-bounces at iccu.co.uk] on behalf of Ben Jenkins [lejenkins at live.co.uk]

Sent: 24 November 2012 19:10

To: committee at iccu.co.uk

Subject: Re: [Committee] We need a Carols speaker!

I think Mark would be happy to speak if we wanted on a Thursday/Friday. From a financial point of view not using
 the great hall would really help the CU's finances. It would be good to have a decision on it what we are going to do either way asap though?

From: 
caitlin.halfacre09 at imperial.ac.uk

To: lejenkins at live.co.uk;
committee at iccu.co.uk

Subject: RE: [Committee] We need a Carols speaker!

Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 16:52:46 +0000

Started writing that before everyone else replied then didn't realise you all had, but it has the added input of my friend who might be coming. We seem to be heading towards
 a weekday (Thursday seems sensible to me) but not Andrew Sach speaking. Unless I misread it I don't think Mark said that he wouldn't be able to speak if we did a weekday, he just thought we'd prefer Andrew...

From: 
committee-bounces at iccu.co.uk [committee-bounces at iccu.co.uk] on behalf of Halfacre, Caitlin [caitlin.halfacre09 at imperial.ac.uk]

Sent: 24 November 2012 16:23

To: Ben Jenkins; 
committee at iccu.co.uk

Subject: Re: [Committee] We need a Carols speaker!

OK, so the decision we were thinking about on Wednesday kind of boiled down to:

Weekday + church => increased numbers due to weekday, possibly decreased due to people not wanting to go to churchWeekend + Great Hall => decreased numbers due to weekend, possibly increased numbers due not being in a church

It feels a little equal on both sides, and on Wednesday I was definitely on the side of people not wanting to go to church. Though after reading Mark's email, I decided to ask my housemate for an outside opinion and she said she'd always prefer a weekday,
 and said that she figured most people would like the atmosphere of a church at Christmas and pointed out that a lot of the choir and other music concerts are in St. Stephen's Gloucester road and pull a reasonable crowd.

So I'm now leaning back towards Wednesday I think. What does everyone else think?

In other news, I love this Christmas video by Glen Scrivener. http://vimeo.com/54075943

Caitlin

From: 
committee-bounces at iccu.co.uk [committee-bounces at iccu.co.uk] on behalf of Ben Jenkins [lejenkins at live.co.uk]

Sent: 23 November 2012 20:04

To: committee at iccu.co.uk

Subject: Re: [Committee] We need a Carols speaker!

Just got this from Mark, what do you guys think?

"Hi Ben
I am, of course, very happy to serve the CU and help out in that way if Andrew Sach is unable to speak. 
Is it okay if I ask a couple of questions of the CU cttee about the Saturday choice? Feel free to forward this on to them. I am happy to go with what the CU decide but, if it is ok,
 may I ask these questions as someone who wants to support the CU in all you do.

1) I assume CUs always choose midweek dates for Carols as it means a maximum potential number of students already around campus and therefore easily accessible and within reach. Are
 you convinced as a cttee that more (or as many) students would come back into college on a Saturday for a Carols than would stay around midweek? What persuades you that is the case - have you all asked friends to see if they would bother to come back in for
 a carol service, for example? It may be that the committee have each already invited 20 or so friends and they have confirmed they would come in from home on a saturday - in which case - woohoo! 

2) Why the choice of Saturday ? In particular, was it driven by being the BEST time and day to reach non-Christian students or by availability of a preferred choice of venue? If the
 former, then great and let's roll with that research. If the latter, then I fear any benefit you have as a result of being on campus will be nullified by choosing a day when students are not around on campus.

3) If the venue is the real issue then it may be a case of the tail wagging the dog. I know you all want the most number of students to be reached via the carol service so I would
 imagine you want to pick the best time, day and speaker for that goal and then find a venue that fits. For example, if you decided Thursday or Friday early evening is best with Andrew Sach speaking (choosing your mission speaker is the norm) then I would imagine
 you would try to find the best possible local venue that works. For example, in such circumstances, I would be happy for you to use Christ Church Kensington for your service with Andrew Sach speaking. It will have the advantage of being under 5 mins walk from
 campus, being warm and looking very Christmassy with huge Christmas tree, tea lights, decorations etc. I would not expect to have a role in the service as I would expect you to lead it and Andrew to speak.

I guess what I am trying to say is if the venue is the problem then here is a workable solution to that problem without undermining your main goal of getting the gospel out to the
 largest potential number of students. Sorry if that is all very cheeky for a speaker to ask or say but there it is - I say it out of love for Imperial CU and out of real support for all you are doing. If you still think that Saturday is the best day for reaching
 the students then I am happy to help.
God bless
your brother
Mark"

From: 
james.faux10 at imperial.ac.uk

To: lejenkins at live.co.uk

Subject: RE: [Committee] We need a Carols speaker!

Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2012 16:42:06 +0000

Yes! Praise God :)

From: 
committee-bounces at iccu.co.uk [committee-bounces at iccu.co.uk] on behalf of Ben Jenkins [lejenkins at live.co.uk]

Sent: 23 November 2012 16:05

To: 
gt.schofield at yahoo.co.uk; 
committee at iccu.co.uk

Subject: Re: [Committee] We need a Carols speaker!

I spoke to Mark and he says he is happy to do it!

Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2012 14:44:28 +0000

From: gt.schofield at yahoo.co.uk

To: committee at iccu.co.uk

Subject: Re: [Committee] We need a Carols speaker!

Thanks James,

So the past two years we have had Carol service speakers from HTB and St Helens, so we decided on wednesday to go for someone from CCK or CCM.

Ben, could you contact Mark O'Donoghue to ask if he would be up for it?

If he can't make it then I will ask Matt Fuller or Matt Loyd from CCM if they would be up for it.

Thanks everyone, lets be praising God for all he is doing praying for the carol service!!

Guy

From: "Faux, James" <james.faux10 at imperial.ac.uk>

To: "committee at iccu.co.uk" <committee at iccu.co.uk>

Sent: Friday, 23 November 2012, 13:20

Subject: [Committee] We need a Carols speaker!

Hi everyone, Sachy has let me know that he is happy for someone else to do the talk on Satyrday 8th:

"Ok mate. If you are personally sure that you'll find someone faithful as my replacement then I'd prefer to honour my commitment to Tim's wedding. Thanks"

So let's get asking the other people on the list!

James

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 give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s
 hand. (John 10:14-29)

-- 

 I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me— just as the Father knows me and I know
 the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep...... I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has
 given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. (John 10:14-29)

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