[Committee] Heaven!

Sun Oct 23 12:43:27 CEST 2011

Here's what I've come up with. Tried to keep the tone Felix-friendly :) Happy for edits etc
James

(Tried to attach but internet won't respond. So it's just pasted in below)

The Heaven of Hell - A Response

Is heaven actually hell? Is it all a big church-fueled lie? Perhaps Mr Horti represented most of Imperial when he stated last week that heaven is a place of “slavery to the almighty God”, and is of a “conspicuously man-made nature”. But hang on. Put the crossword on hold and concentrate for a second. These are important issues. As scientists, we really ought - no, we are obliged - to investigate this properly before forming an opinion. Have you investigated? If not, keep reading.

Now, last week’s portrayal of heaven suggests that anyone who believes in an afterlife has not thought carefully enough about it; a believer is a person stubbornly ignoring everything around them, sticking their fingers in their ears and going ‘la la la’ while all the evidence screams out ‘heaven is a human fabrication!’ Here’s the deal: the believers I know don’t subscribe to that heaven. They don’t believe in a heaven experienced solely by the “immaterial soul” (pun intended). The Bible, at any rate, is clear on this: “There are heavenly bodies”. The idea of an out-of-body afterlife comes from elsewhere. Mind blown? Perhaps not, but there’s more.

Think of the best things on earth. The things that really make life worth living. If you’re thinking of cancelled lectures think bigger. I’m talking about relationships, love, beauty, peace and happiness. If there is a God, he knows we like this stuff. If there is a God, it was him who created it! So surely he wouldn’t subject us to a heaven without things like that. The Bible describes a heaven where there is no death, mourning, crying or pain. So no Matlab, then. Sounds pretty awesome to me.

One more thing. Last week we read that by “doing good on the earth” we can get to heaven. If this sounds familiar to you, you’re in for a shock. What Jesus actually said was that you stand literally no chance of getting to heaven, unless even your thoughts are perfect. Basically he’s saying no one can go to heaven. Seriously, check it out! Anyway. I’m not here to preach. But if you’ve read this far, why not have a look at this stuff for yourself? Find out how Jesus thinks you can make it to heaven. And if it still seems like nonsense, fair enough. Just please don’t be uninformed. That’s not the Imperial way.

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From: committee-bounces at iccu.co.uk [committee-bounces at iccu.co.uk] on behalf of Faux, James [james.faux10 at imperial.ac.uk]
Sent: 23 October 2011 07:59
To: Ravalde, Thomas; Boon, Joel; committee at iccu.co.uk; coldfield at uccf.org.uk; Raftery, John; McVey, Robert; Guenault, Rebecca; Robinson, Benjamin; Mewton, Daniel; Guy, Laura; Newman, Julian; Vautier, Philip; Cooper, Stephen; Wood, Sebastian; Birch, David
Subject: Re: [Committee] Heaven!

Have started drafting something; no problem if someone else is also writing, we can get the best bits from each! Hopefully will have something presentable by end of today
James
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From: committee-bounces at iccu.co.uk [committee-bounces at iccu.co.uk] on behalf of Ravalde, Thomas [thomas.ravalde08 at imperial.ac.uk]
Sent: 22 October 2011 22:49
To: Boon, Joel; committee at iccu.co.uk; coldfield at uccf.org.uk; Raftery, John; McVey, Robert; Guenault, Rebecca; Robinson, Benjamin; Mewton, Daniel; Guy, Laura; Newman, Julian; Vautier, Philip; Cooper, Stephen; Wood, Sebastian; Birch, David
Subject: Re: [Committee] Heaven!

Cheers Joel - that's very helpful.

I don't see why they would object to Bible verses - they've had Muslims writing before quoting the Qu'ran... at the very least, we should be able to put Biblical themes/ideas. The other option is to quote the Bible without actually saying it's a quote from the Bible...

Thanks,
Tom
:)
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From: Boon, Joel
Sent: 22 October 2011 22:17
To: Ravalde, Thomas; committee at iccu.co.uk; coldfield at uccf.org.uk; Raftery, John; McVey, Robert; Guenault, Rebecca; Robinson, Benjamin; Mewton, Daniel; Guy, Laura; Newman, Julian; Vautier, Philip; Cooper, Stephen; Wood, Sebastian; Birch, David
Subject: RE: Heaven!

Hi,

Here are just some of my preliminary thoughts:

- Here’s a person not excited or even dreadful about heaven, perhaps write from a heart with an anticipation, excitement for heaven.
- Better to write from personal experience than from something that sounds theoretical.
- Perhaps quote Bible verses, but not sure if Felix would allow publication of that.
- Who we trust to tell us about what heaven is or is like – the One who made it. Why do we trust what Jesus/the Bible says?
- He is my loving Saviour who gave His life for me. I am His willing servant who is forever indebted to Him.
- Maybe better to go back straight to the issue of authority on this matter, rather than dealing with the nitty gritty details of his article. If the Bible’s true, then all these issues are cleared.

Regards,
Joel
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From: committee-bounces at iccu.co.uk [committee-bounces at iccu.co.uk] on behalf of Ravalde, Thomas [thomas.ravalde08 at imperial.ac.uk]
Sent: 22 October 2011 20:11
To: committee at iccu.co.uk; coldfield at uccf.org.uk; Raftery, John; McVey, Robert; Guenault, Rebecca; Robinson, Benjamin; Mewton, Daniel; Guy, Laura; Newman, Julian; Vautier, Philip; Cooper, Stephen; Wood, Sebastian; Birch, David
Subject: [Committee] Heaven!

Dear CUers and Post-Grads,

A dude wrote an interesting comment piece in Felix this week about Heaven - and why to him, it's more like Hell... read it at the link below...

http://felixonline.co.uk/comment/1568/the-heaven-of-hell/
Page 18 in Felix I think...

Anyone want to have a crack at writing a truthful and loving response to this? I think there's a few places we can engage with this:

  *   the immaterial soul floating off to the afterlife is not a Christian idea - it's Platonic/Gnostic... Christianity teaches a bodily resurrection in a physical new creation...
  *   You get to heaven by "doing good" - erm... can we share the good news here?
  *   His opposition to never ending existence is very interesting... at first I thought he was just being a bit silly/sarcastic... but I think there's a serious point there... he talks about "freedom" - what is this from an atheist and Christian perspective? I think this shows that he thinks true satisfaction can't be found? Surely, we can show people what it is about heaven that is ultimately satisfying... which is more than just an eternal existence... it's actually something (someONE) who we can find satisfaction in in this life! And that makes sense of why an eternal existence with the someONE will not be boring...
  *   The big brother depiction of God... this reaction is very understandable... and it would be easy/tempting just to ridicule his point... but this is what people really think God is like... so can we seriously engage with his concerns?
  *   Living a life as if there's nothing more to come... can we point out some of the consequences of this... a world that will not one-day be put right - and the licence that gives people...
  *   Embracing ultimate independence... hmm... I've been reading a cracking book called Straw Dogs recently where the atheist author shows that it is a huge lie from an atheist/Darwinist perspective that we have "independence" - we are controlled by animal instincts, circumstances we have no control over etc... I could find some good quotes if anyone wanted.. Is he guilty of wishful thinking here?
  *   I'm sure people can think of other ways to engage with this... - send round any thoughts you might have.

Other thoughts:

  *   If we want to make this Friday's issue - then we have to get the article in by Tuesday...
  *   Chris Oldfield has offered to help anyone who might want to have a crack at this. I would happily read over anything that someone wrote if they wanted.
  *   His article was 797 words long - so I'd suggest something of similar length...
  *   I'd be up for writing something - but v. busy with coursework piling up... so I'm throwing it out there...
  *   Bethinking and theology network has some great stuff on resurrection...

Let me know if you'd like a crack at this - could be a brilliant opportunity to give every student at Imperial the chance to hear and respond to the gospel... and a great conversation starter... in fact, this week's article could be a good conversation starter...

Tom.

(People may have also angry geek's pleasant paragraph about the CU in this week's felix - but it's only angry geek - so no need to take that one too seriously... whilst it maybe tempting to write a witty response - it will probably only cause more problems... AG has a history of pursuing those who challenge him in his articles... You may find it a good conversation starter with friends though...)
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